Ask Me Anything: Lawyer Career Transition
What if you want to quit, without something else lined up?
Elena Deutsch, founder of WILL – Women Interested in Leaving (big) Law, and Casey Berman, founder of Leave Law Behind, are back with another AMA column! See below on how to ask them ANYTHING on how to land a new role or move into an alternative career.
Today, we’re tackling the question: What if you want to quit, without something else lined up?
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Elena Deutsch: So many people who are coming to WILL who are burnt out especially from this last year and a half of COVID. They fear they don’t have the bandwidth to find something else, ESPECIALLY while they’re working for a big law firm.
Casey Berman: Totally understandable. When it comes to your job as a lawyer, you’ve been worn down but your job really hasn’t cared that much. The boundaries have dropped because you’re always available on Zoom, you’re at home, the computer’s there, the partners emailing you, and so on.
Elena: People are curious, they want to figure something else out, but their mental health is frayed. They used to have time that was protected. “Let me go pick up my kids from daycare, have dinner with my family, and then I’ll get back online later.” No longer!
Plus, I am seeing people on the edge of burnout. They struggle to care about work anymore. Part of that is they don’t find purpose in their legal work, and with Covid and firm cultures, they NEVER take a break.
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Casey: Also, the work is boring. They don’t like to work when there’s no meaning or purpose in it. If the work’s exciting, but you really don’t care, you can endure. But if you have neither?
Elena: Then you have no time to replenish. That’s the recipe for really not caring. Relationships are suffering. Lawyers I speak with are not working out, taking care of their bodies, and their mental health is stretched thin.
I was in LA this summer and had a WILL meet up with 10 women, and you know what they said? “You can’t pay me enough to keep doing this.”
There’s a woman in WILL who left without something else lined up. She had saved plenty and she said, “What am I saving this money for? I don’t want to buy a house and be more committed to this job. I’m going to put this down payment on myself.”
Casey: That’s fantastic. That gets to the question of, “Should I just effing get out of here and quit?”
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Elena: I’ve had a number of people in WILL who’ve left without something else lined up. They had to have the financial means to do it, AND they chose to prioritize their mental health. Please note: We’re not saying jump out of a plane without a parachute.
Casey: Right. I don’t want you to trade the anxiety of a lawyer job you don’t like for the anxiety of how will you pay your bills. You need the parachute financially. We have a whole module on money in Leave Law Behind. Money is a beautiful thing.
Save up. Take a new job at a lower salary if needed. Live off savings for a while. There’s a lot of easy ways to consult as a lawyer through new law firm models. It’s not just “either I have the money in the bank, or I don’t”.
Elena: There’s the money mindset of: “If I leave law, it’s either law or zero.” And maybe it is for a while,, but it’s not going to be zero forever. Then there’s the planning, so that you know you have a runway.
Casey: Money is step one. Step two then is, “Why do you want the time off?” Identify why you want to leave your job and be clear on it. I would encourage everyone to really unpack what the reason is.
Elena: “Why is this imperative now?” Get rooted in that. For many people, what I’m hearing is “My life depends on it. My health depends on it. I don’t know who I am anymore.” Those are valid reasons.
Casey: Now, if you’re at that point, I think leave. I talked with a Leave Law Behind member in a similar spot. When we planned out the fact that he could be in a non-law job in 3 to 5 to 7 months, while keeping his day job, the severity of it reduced. You can do it but that’s up to you to decide.
Elena: The choice is yours. Here’s an anecdote about a WILL member who left her law job without something else lined up. It was during the 2020 election. She went to work for Biden as a volunteer. After the election, she went back to LA and wanted to work for a progressive elected official. That’s exactly where she’s landed. She worked herself up from volunteer to campaign coordinator and now she’s the campaign manager!
Casey: So, let’s go through the steps:
- Get your money in order.
- Unpack why you want to leave.
- Take time to figure it out. This shows you have the financial and soulful wherewithal. You’re able to be in more control. This is something a hiring manager can admire.
- Get out there. For one of the first times in your life, you’re actually going to look for a job that’s not just “make mom and dad proud” or “brings financial stability and security.” Go deep on your skills and strengths. Let that be the tip of the spear and find those jobs that are a fit.
Elena: I love that! Let that be the tip of the spear. It’s your filter for everything that you’re looking for. Know what you’re looking for and the people you’re talking with can be helpful. One WILL member is in the process of leaving her job, and she really wants a leadership role in a nonprofit like a COO. And now people are like, “Oh, I know someone you can talk with!”
Casey: Exactly. They need to feel confident if they’re going to make introductions for you. The more that you’ve done to really understand what your skills and strengths are and what you enjoy, it helps them help you better. They may say, “I know someone who needs what you need. Thanks for putting that together.”
Elena: Exactly. Alright, so maybe let’s wrap this one up. Time is short, people. You can make more money. You can’t make more time. Do the work to get clear on that tip of the spear so you clearly know what you’re interested in. If you want help with that, reach out to Casey or I.
To send Casey and Elena your questions, submit them here: AskCaseyAndElena@gmail.com
Listen in as Casey and Elena discuss how to leave (big) law and more on the Love or Leave the Law Podcast.
Learn more about Leave Law Behind here.
Learn more about WILL – Women Interested in Leaving (big) Law here.
Elena F. Deutsch, MPH is the CEO of WILL – Women Interested in Leaving (big) Law. She helps attorneys who feel stuck and unhappy, clarify what else they can do, experience relief and act on their dreams. Since founding WILL in 2017, it has been her joy to help women (and a few men) transform their careers and lives. Her work has been featured in Above the Law, Bloomberg Big Law Business, The American Lawyer and more. You can find her on LinkedIn or at www.womeninterestedinleavinglaw.com.
Casey Berman (University of California, Hastings College of the Law ’99), is the founder of Leave Law Behind, a career coaching program that helps unhappy attorneys leave their legal practice for their dream, “alternative” career. Casey focused primarily on software licensing for five years before leaving the law behind in 2004. Since then, his career has helped him develop a wide range of skills, as Management Consultant, VP Operations, Chief Communications Officer and Investment Banker. Casey just wrote an in-depth article to help you land your dream “alternative” career out of the law, click here to read more.
